Jane Eyre Discussion #4

1/30/2013

In class, we briefly discussed the Latin root for passion. This word, patī, means to suffer or to submit. Think about the examples of passion we see in the novel (Jane, Rochester, St. John, Rosamond). How do these examples of passion fit this definition? How can you tell? Does knowledge of the Latin root open up any new interpretations of Jane’s struggle with Passion?

Answer in a complete paragraph, and when you have finished, respond to a classmate’s post.

34 Comments

Kelti Lorence

1/29/2013 01:19:15 pm

Through both pairs of relationships, passion is a very relevant word because everyone seems to want something they should not, or cannot, have. Jane has nothing to add to Mr. Rochester's fortune; he wants someone far below what society believes he should have. St. John, a preacher, feels Rosamond not suited to him but cannot help love her all the same. Often we hear or see signs of each persons internal struggle as they search for the best way to handle their situations. Previously, as I thought passion to have a more positive ring to the word, I thought Jane's source of passion lay in Mr. Rochester's love. Now I see it becomes more than just the single feeling. She is passionate in her love for him as well as tearing herself away after learning about Bertha. Though it was obviously not easy, her passion for him and his well-being made her do what she thought best for him. She seems to be spirited on many situations, and suffers just as much. Everything she does seems to have a negative consequence that she must deal with.

Mary Sine

1/30/2013 03:29:25 am

You make a good point by mentioning that everyone seems to want something they should not, or cannot, have, and linking that to passion. I agree that a lot of the things Jane does seem to have negative consequences she has to deal with. Good job.

Emily

1/29/2013 01:47:48 pm

Passion in the cases of Jane and Rochester, Rochester and Bertha, and St. John and Rosamund (so far), have all ended in someone getting hurt. Jane had passion for Rochester, but when she left him, she felt bad because she could see that he was really hurt that she wouldn't marry him, even if it was for a good reason. With Rochester and Bertha, Bertha suffered the most, seeing as she was locked up in an attic for so long that she went crazy. Rochester had to live with that guilt though. St John is in love with Rosamund, but doesn't think she'd be acceptable as a minister's wife so he is denying himself her love and vice versa.

Emily

1/29/2013 01:49:14 pm

Hit submit too fast. Knowing the Latin root makes you think about it as less of just a romance novel and see more in depth.

Kendall

1/30/2013 02:47:44 pm

Hey i definitely can see where people may look at it less of a Romance novel with knowing the Latin root of passion, but what would be a good way of describing the novel now that we can look at it more in depth?

Lacayah

2/19/2013 02:35:32 pm

I agree. It definately stops looking like a love story and more like one big heartbreak.

Mary Sine

1/30/2013 03:26:37 am

The examples of passion in the novel, Jane, Rochester, St. John, and Rosamond, fit the definition of passion meaning to suffer or submit in different ways. With Jane and Rochester, they both suffer because of their passion for each other. Jane suffers because of her passion for Rochester, especially when she decides to leave Thornfield after finding out about his wife, Bertha. Rochester suffers because of his passion for Jane because at first he wanted to make sure that she reciprocated, and then he suffered because she was pushing him away, due to his previous marriage. St. John and Rosamond have a slightly different relationship with passion, compared to Rochester and Jane. St. John feels passionately about working as a missionary in India, submitting his will, so that he can do God's work. But this passion for being a missionary conflicts with his personal passion for Rosamond, which causes him suffering because he loves her, but doesn't want to marry her. Rosamond obviously likes St. John, and probably suffers because of his rejection of her, and like of obviously reciprocating her feelings. The new meaning to the Latin rood of passion, brings some new meaning to Jane's struggle with Passion. Now we can see that Jane is suffering because of her passion for Rochester, but we also see that she doesn't submit to the passion, even though she wants to. She is defying the passion she holds for Rochester and also defying part of the meaning of passion, to submit, by leaving Thornfield. But she still is suffering because of her passion.

Megan Wall

1/30/2013 03:53:14 am

I really like how you pointed out that while Jane and St. John are submitting to what is right they are neglecting their passion of love. Great insight and thoughts!

Megan Wall

1/30/2013 03:46:20 am

Passion has a power over people to make them feel so deeply about something that they are willing to suffer for whatever it is that they love so much. Passion, I would argue, does come from love; I do not think passion, or the willing to suffer, can exist without love. This reigns true in Jane and Rochester's relationship. Both love each other so much that they are willing to break down the barriers of what is socially acceptable, as far as social classes go, to be with one another. Rochester goes so far as to have Jane be his mistress so they can be together, but this is sentiment is not returned by Jane. Despite Jane's love for Rochester, she refuses to do what is immoral and become married while Rochester has a wife that is living. Once the truth is brought to light, Jane makes the choice to leave him and must suffer physically and emotionally for her passion, Rochester. Before Jane leaves, Rochester makes a scene declaring that if she goes so does his comfort, hope, and life. Once Jane is gone, it can only be imagined how Rochester is suffering emotionally and spiritually because of his passionate love for Jane. As Bronte introduces Jane's new home with St. John and reveals his love for Rosamond and her love for him, we seem to see somewhat of a reversed reflection of Jane and Rochester's passionate predicament. St. John suffers for this woman by neglecting his love through denial of his passion and allows himself to be internally tormented for her. All the while Rosamond is living in quite the opposite way; she is extremely open about her feelings for St. John and is not hiding her love for him. However, by being open to the man she loves, while he is living in confinement of his feelings, her love seems to be unacknowledged and unreturned, which causes her to suffer emotionally. Whenever a person has a passion, they must be willing to suffer. If, after some trials occur, the passion dissipates it was not true Passion, but merely an infatuation.

Carley

1/30/2013 04:30:02 am

I like your thoughts. Does passion have to be never ending though?

Carley

1/30/2013 04:13:22 am

Throughout Jane Eyre, the two most obvious relationships that have conflicting passion are between Jane and Rochester then also between Rosamond and St. John. Ironically, Jane’s passion is to be happy so when her and Rochester get engaged, all she believes she finally felt as if she fulfilled this passion. Rochester longs to be with a woman who is his equal intellectually so when Jane comes along, he doesn’t mind the fact that they’re from different social classes, in fact, he probably likes that because one thing Rochester wants more than intellectual equality is control. There is conflict between the couple during their engagement because of this. Jane loves her new happiness and nothing, not even her fiancée’s desire for control can get in her way. However, their love and passion for each other overcomes these obstacles until Jane finds out about Bertha. Jane’s conscience wins over her own personal desires because she knows that being Rochester’s mistress is immoral and wrong. While Jane knows she must leave Thornfield in order to forget about Rochester and start over, subconsciously it is because in order to attain that happiness she strives for, she can’t stay there. St. John and Rosamond’s relationship is also affected by passion but in a different way. Because of internal conflict, St. John ignores the idea of Rosamond being his wife because his conscience tells him she would be a bad wife for a missionary man while on the other hand, her beauty and personality makes him find her nearly irresistible. His passion to be with Rosamond creates this confliction with his will to succumb to what he thinks God wants of him. Rosamond doesn’t seem to have much thought going on in her head, but she probably wants to have true love, which she finds possible in St. John. I had never thought of passion meaning to suffer for something, so it brings in this new depth and also explains the reason why people (such as Jane) will hurt so much for something they want so bad.

Hannah Cox link

1/30/2013 10:44:17 am

Great ideas. I liked how you noticed that Jane is not the only one struggling with Conscience and Passion.

Hannah Cox link

1/30/2013 10:39:19 am

Jane, Mr. Rochester, St.John, and Rosamond all exemplify passion well. Mr. Rochester, for example, spent a substantial amount of time after Jane left in misery and grief over what was lost. Through this the reader can see something of suffering (which was, take note, self inflicted) as well as submission: Mr. Rochester had allowed Jane to have such power over his emotions that he suffered with her loss. Likewise, St.John also suffers from his passion for Rosamond, although unlike Mr. Rochester he does not allow to have power over him. His suffering is rooted in this fact; he denies himself it, so he suffers. St.John's passion for service, missions, and God, however, more obviously reflects submission. More quietly, he suffers when he is not able to do these things and when he is forced to be in the presence of this "other passion" or "worldly passion." This "worldly passion" is something of what St.John deems that Rosamond feels towards him. It seems that he is proved right when Rosamond so quickly falls in love with another man. In the case of St.John and Rosamond, it seems that a clear contrast is drawn between these different types of passion. Perhaps the clearest example of passion in this story, however, can be seen in Jane. Jane feels passion both for Mr. Rochester and to do what is right or to be free and equal to others. For instance, her passion for Mr. Rochester causes her to submit to him: she calls him "master" or "sir" for the time that she is with him and in many cases allows him to rule her, especially in the case of her emotions. This same passion causes her to suffer when she leaves him. Similarly, her passion for equality and freedom caused her to suffer when lacking them, as she did at Lowood, early in her time at Thornfield, and when she was beneath St.John at the Moor House. Her passion to do what is right caused the submission to God and "Conscience" that led her to leave Thornfield. The nature of passion is most clearly reflected in her struggle against it. She longs to submit to it and suffers from that longing. When she chooses to submit to Conscience, she submits to what appears to be another passion, which she suffers for in much the same way. Thus, all of these characters portray passion, adding depth and reason for their motives, as well as moves the plot.

Kendall

1/30/2013 02:41:23 pm

Throughout Jane Eyre we see that the two most obvious "couples" that are examples of the word passion are Jane, Rochester and Rosamond and St. John. In the relationship between Jane and Rochester we see passion being exemplified from both people. Jane loves Rochester and desires to be with him but this passion she has for him is the exact reason she is suffering when she has to follow her conscience and leave him after finding out about Bertha. She suffers because of her passion for Rochester. Rochester demonstrates passion in the pain and suffering he feels upon the lose of Jane (his true love). When Jane rejects his apology and and total submission to her he is devastated, which in turn causing suffering, and it is here where we see the passion he has for Jane. With Rosamond and St. John's relationship we see the same type of suffering but in reverse. St. John suffers because he cannot be with the one he loves due to his own self inflicted confinement. While on the other hand Rosamond suffers because she wants submission but is turned down by St. John's commitment of being a missionary and his idea that she wouldn't be wife material. With passion comes pain and confusion but in any good relationship there has to be passion. I think now that I know the true meaning of passion I can see Jane struggling with the other meaning of passion, which is submitting. I believe that only person she can truly submit her life to now is Rochester and until then she will be unable to fully submit to anything.

Celeste Yahr

1/30/2013 04:37:16 pm

Kendall I agree with you and like how you brought up the confusion and pain. Those are good points to make.

Hannah H

1/31/2013 01:40:06 am

Really good ideas Kendall!

Trevor

1/30/2013 03:28:17 pm

Jane, Rochester, St. John, and Rosamond are put into positions where they tried to, or had the opportunity to marry someone. However, none of them worked out because at least one of the individuals in the relationship was not willing to suffer or submit enough to be with the other. St. John’s passionate feeling toward Jane is a perfect example of the definition of the root, patī. He wants her to become his wife simply because she would be a good companion for him while he does his missionary work. He basically expects her to submit nearly to the level of a slave for him. On the other hand, if Jayne were to marry Rochester, her passion for her husband would cause her to suffer greatly. She would never be looked at as an equal by the other women of Rochester’s class and she would always feel in debt to Rochester. In conclusion, the knowledge of the Latin root helps to really understand the awkward predicament Jane is in with men.

Tristan

2/3/2013 03:30:32 pm

Nice, I like your addition of Jane having to submit to Rochester being a factor, I hadn't thought of that when I reflected on that passage.

Celeste Yahr

1/30/2013 04:32:58 pm

Passion has many definitions, but one of the most interesting to think about is that of suffering. In the book Jane Eyre it see several times. Jane is a great example because she loves Rochester so much it hurts her. It hurts her fiscally and emotionally. This can be seen when Rochester leaves for a while and when he comes back he comments on how she looks paler and thinner then when he left. While he was gone she got worse and she says she doesn't like when he is gone. Also another more recent time when she leaves him. She is in such an inward battle that she is suffering. Also when she leaves she doesn't eat for three days and then sleeps for a long time. She has so much passion for Rochester she is willing to suffer for him. We see this also in Rochester. We've seen that social class is a big part of this novel and it is important to Rochester at first. When he finally realizes that Jane loves him and he loves her more than anything he is willing to completely breakdown the social barrier between them and take the wrath of society. He is also willing to suffer for Jane because of his love for her. St. John loves Rosamond, however he feels like he needs to be a missionary and doesn't think that Rosamond would make a good missionary wife. He loves her but is denying himself happiness and therefor suffering. His passion can't be fulfilled which is causing his suffering.

Mika

1/31/2013 01:42:48 pm

Nice thoughts on how passion physically hurts Jane

Sam Farmer

3/13/2013 08:42:36 am

I like how you mention passion affecting her both mentally and physically and the examples you gave.

Jonathon D.

1/30/2013 11:58:58 pm

Passion is described very delicatley in the description of Jane Eyre. So far in all of the relationships that Jane has either been a part of or has seen has had passion described in each of them. For example, in the relationship between Jane and Mr. Rochester, Mr. Rochester really is honest about his love for Jane and Jane is also. The only reason why Jane left is to follow her own passion, to not be completley controlled. Another example is the relationship between St. John and Rosamond. You can clearly tell that both love each other but St. John knows that it is not socialbly exceptable to be with Rosamond. Rosamond really wants to be with St. John but she also is afraid that it is not right. One other relationship is between Miss Ingram and Mr. Rochester. Miss Ingramm wants to fulfill her passion by getting her hands on Mr. Rochester's fortune. Mr. Rochester fulfills his passion by making Jane jealous so she will admit her love to Mr. Rochester.

Hannah H

1/31/2013 01:39:32 am

At first look, Jane Eyre is a book of relationships, love, and in turn passion. At an indepth look, we see this passion well up with suffering. In the example of Jane and Mr. Rochester, we see this love, the passion, well up so much it hurts. We see the suffering of confinement in the case of Mr. Rochester, as well as in the dreams of Jane. In the cases of both Jane and Mr. Rochester and St. John and Rosamond, The couples experience an internal conflict between giving into love or following their conscience. This causes internal suffering as they battle with themselves over this important decision. This indepth look at passion expresses the extent of the true struggle Jane is facing. She is suffering. But I am reminded of the beginging of the book, when Jane first meets Helen and Brocklehurst and how Helen suffered, maybe not for passion but for God. Now we see St. John and Jane both suffering, because of their love. The two come hand in hand, True love sparks passion and that passion can soon turn to suffering.

Mika

1/31/2013 01:40:50 pm

The definition of passion as suffering/ submission fit well in Jane's, Rochester's, and St. John's situation. St. John passion for Rosamond made him suffer in having to battle against his conscience. When he stopped his passion for Rosamond, his suffering stopped as well. Before Jane and Rochester admitted their love for each other, their passion caused them suffering because they could not be together. Jane submitted to her passion for Rochester when she accepted his proposal, as well as when she truly married Rochester at the end. But when she left, both their passions un-smothered, they suffered. Also, Bertha, with an wildly uncontrollable passion to be free from Thornfield, suffers every minute of the day. Her passion literally burned Thornfield down.

Trevor

2/3/2013 12:23:48 pm

I like how you brought Bertha into your response. She fits very well in the passion conflict in the story. Great response.

Mackenzie

2/3/2013 02:09:18 pm

I agree with Trevor! I didn't even think about Bertha fitting into all of this.

Ariana

2/4/2013 02:12:24 am

I agree with Trevor and Kenzie! Bringing up Bertha is a really good point!

Mackenzie

2/3/2013 02:08:31 pm

Passion is something that, in this novel, has hurt a lot of people. Jane's passion for Mr.Rochester has caused her much pain and I don't believe, because of this so called passion she has truly used her head in all the decisions she has made thus far. Although she was passionate about loving Mr.Rochester she was also passionate about leaving him, which caused both of them much useless hurt. If you really love someone that much you don't just up and leave them because of one mistake; passion drove her away. BUT passion also brings her back to him. This translation fits the use of passion because of all the hurt that has been caused by it. Jane has submitted herself to falling deeply in love with Mr. Rochester driving her to make passionate decisions and causing her much hurt. This definition shows that maybe more hurt is to come her way.

Tristan

2/3/2013 03:26:17 pm

In examining how each character' example of passion fits with the definition of passion, we see that Jane, Rochester, and St. John are all made to suffer by their passion. Jane suffers because what she knows is right is not what she wants to do. Rochester suffers because he took a chance with his passion and lost. St. John also suffers because he has conflicting passions, he loves Rosamond but he has made a choice to apply his whole being to his religion and the prospect of a better life in heaven. This makes him suffer while he chooses his religion over his love. All of these require submission to something, wether its a condition or a person. These exemplify the definition of passion because these event drastically change the lives of those involved. There is not really anything "new" per se but there is a deeper understanding of what is happening with these characters.

Jacob Jones

2/3/2013 05:14:01 pm

I agree with your examples of how Jane, Rochester, and St. John suffer by their passion.

Jacob Jones

2/3/2013 05:14:31 pm

Jane Eyre is full of examples of passion between Jane and Rochester. Jane and Rochester both had passion for each other but they did not want to show it to the other because of social class and other issues. The Latin root for passion, patī, means to suffer or to submit. Therefore, with Jane and Rochester’s passion for each other they are really suffering because they do not want to break social class. But then Rochester just decides to ask Jane to marry him, and in doing so he submits to the social class issues that where containing him. When Jane is about to marry Rochester she finds out that Rochester is already married to Bertha, Jane is upset and leaves Thornfield and Rochester. Jane did not want to leave but she felt that she could not stay after what she found out so she suffered more by leaving. In the novel of Jane Eyre, I think that the Latin root for passion is very important and gives different interpretations of Jane.

Ariana

2/4/2013 02:11:26 am

Usually passion is seen as something good; it drives people to do what they love or in this case be with who they love. For example, Jane and Mr. Rochester love eachother deeply but they suffer by not being together. Jane suffers becuase after the whole Bertha incodent she knows that she can not be with Rochester but her heart still aches for him. Rochester's passion for Jane causes him to not think clearly which results in him lieing to Jane about Bertha. He suffers with his choice of doing so when she leaves Thornfield. St. John and Rosamond's relationship also suffers even though there is passion between the two. St. John struggles internally with his love for Rosamond versus his chioce to not marry her because she would not be a good missionary wife.

Brady

2/18/2013 04:10:48 am

Are you sure that they only suffer when they are not together or does Jane also suffer when they are together because of the control he has over her?

Brady

2/18/2013 04:05:49 am

The definition of passion is that of suffering. Jane shows this when she is with Rochester. They love each other deeply and being with him brings Jane happiness. There is another side to this though. By being with him she is confined which is her greatest fear. She can't even call herself his wife because of Bertha. She is totally in his control if she stays with him. So this love she feels also brings about her greatest fear of being controlled. This passion between them also brings about her suffering. Her relationship between St. John also represents this passion. Jane wants to have St. John as a brother and go on his mission trip to be happy. He says that being a sister is not good enough and he needs her to be his wife. She has this passion to go and help people but in order to do so she needs to be one hundred percent in his control. She can't give in to this control in order to have her passion. By giving in she would have been doing what she wants but also suffered because she gave up her freedom. These are both examples of passion because in order for her to have happiness she would have also had to suffer.

Jane Eyre Discussion #4

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